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janestarzJayPee, listen. No, really listen, for a change. I have something to say. And this, this might be important to you.
You see, JayPee, you have a job, because of the little people. And I, I am one of them. Not that I voted for you, nooooo I wouldn't if my life depended on it. The point is that you realize you have a good job because of us. And that, my dear JayPee, is something to be thankful for. Why don't you thank your Lord right now that you are lucky enough to have your wife and children, a house to live in, and a job to pay for that all.
The truth is, JayPee, that a lot of things are going wrong right now. The economy sucks. The job market is still at a low, though slowly climbing. But you know what I really want to talk about, for it is also on your mind. It's this whole Europe thing. You may think that people are easily swayed, but right now you find out that it is not so. You see, in this whole scheme of things, we get to choose. You and your buddies in Den Haag are basically the elite. And the elite has, in these practical matters, not so much to say. You may think you're very butch, JayPee, but when a guy who looks like he's from the back end of the most strict christian district, tells us that we should vote so-and-so, I think a lot of people are going to think "isn't that the guy we used to beat up in highschool?". And then, people are going to think "why should we?". Your public image is just not charismatic enough to do stuff like that. You're no Wim Kok, no Pim Fortuyn, and definitely no Hitler. You can't pull that kind of stunt off.
So let me tell you something about us plebs. You apparantly lost touch with us and have no idea what we think anyway, your politics show that clearly, so here it is. The average person doesn't like to be told what to do. And when you try to tell someone with more than half a brain to vote 'yes', without giving them coherent, objective information on the issue they're supposed to vote 'yes' on, that someone is going to revolt.
Why do you think the French said 'non'?
Well, actually, the French said 'non' because they didn't believe so much in Europe. French have always been a bit off to the side. As a big country, they would lose power in the European Union. And us Dutch, as inhabitants of a small country, do not believe we would be heard in the European Union. We might have faith, if you were to give it to us. But do not mistake us for Americans. Give us the word "terrorist" in a speech and we do not immediately cheer you on to do your thing. If you were to give us solid information, solid objective information and we might believe you.
Honestly, most of us don't, and I know I certainly don't, know how this whole EU thing is going to go. We have no clue how the leader or the parliament in Brussels is chosen. And you expect us to vote in favour of something we do not even understand. Basically, I think one Europe could be a good thing. But make sure you make the way is clear before trying to force us down that road. Little steps, JayPee, little steps.
JayPee, honestly, are you really that surprised to find that the outcome is probably 'nee' here too? Because anyone who is in doubt will vote 'no'. And that's a whole lot of votes. So for the next time, enlighten us with your infinite wisdom before you try to make us do something. We are not that great either, but we do have a say in who sits in your chair for the next four years.
You see, JayPee, you have a job, because of the little people. And I, I am one of them. Not that I voted for you, nooooo I wouldn't if my life depended on it. The point is that you realize you have a good job because of us. And that, my dear JayPee, is something to be thankful for. Why don't you thank your Lord right now that you are lucky enough to have your wife and children, a house to live in, and a job to pay for that all.
The truth is, JayPee, that a lot of things are going wrong right now. The economy sucks. The job market is still at a low, though slowly climbing. But you know what I really want to talk about, for it is also on your mind. It's this whole Europe thing. You may think that people are easily swayed, but right now you find out that it is not so. You see, in this whole scheme of things, we get to choose. You and your buddies in Den Haag are basically the elite. And the elite has, in these practical matters, not so much to say. You may think you're very butch, JayPee, but when a guy who looks like he's from the back end of the most strict christian district, tells us that we should vote so-and-so, I think a lot of people are going to think "isn't that the guy we used to beat up in highschool?". And then, people are going to think "why should we?". Your public image is just not charismatic enough to do stuff like that. You're no Wim Kok, no Pim Fortuyn, and definitely no Hitler. You can't pull that kind of stunt off.
So let me tell you something about us plebs. You apparantly lost touch with us and have no idea what we think anyway, your politics show that clearly, so here it is. The average person doesn't like to be told what to do. And when you try to tell someone with more than half a brain to vote 'yes', without giving them coherent, objective information on the issue they're supposed to vote 'yes' on, that someone is going to revolt.
Why do you think the French said 'non'?
Well, actually, the French said 'non' because they didn't believe so much in Europe. French have always been a bit off to the side. As a big country, they would lose power in the European Union. And us Dutch, as inhabitants of a small country, do not believe we would be heard in the European Union. We might have faith, if you were to give it to us. But do not mistake us for Americans. Give us the word "terrorist" in a speech and we do not immediately cheer you on to do your thing. If you were to give us solid information, solid objective information and we might believe you.
Honestly, most of us don't, and I know I certainly don't, know how this whole EU thing is going to go. We have no clue how the leader or the parliament in Brussels is chosen. And you expect us to vote in favour of something we do not even understand. Basically, I think one Europe could be a good thing. But make sure you make the way is clear before trying to force us down that road. Little steps, JayPee, little steps.
JayPee, honestly, are you really that surprised to find that the outcome is probably 'nee' here too? Because anyone who is in doubt will vote 'no'. And that's a whole lot of votes. So for the next time, enlighten us with your infinite wisdom before you try to make us do something. We are not that great either, but we do have a say in who sits in your chair for the next four years.
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To all non dutch speakers
Date: 2005-05-31 12:06 am (UTC)Which sounds all too much like "bak ellende" which translates roughly to "bucket of trouble".
And making JayPee out of J.P. well....
no subject
Date: 2005-05-31 04:41 am (UTC)If you are going to ask the people's opinion in a referendum, you can not tell in advance which answer will be the "right" answer, and which answer will be "wrong".
You are asking people about their opinion, and whatever they answer, that is the "right" answer. That is the difference between a quiz and asking someone for their opinion.
So if the french people said "Non", then obviously, that was the "right" answer for them. Is it the most sensible answer? I don't know. Is it the smartest answer? I couldn't tell. Is it an answer you would agree with? Definetely not. But it is their answer, and therefore, it is the "right" answer.
So if you are trying to tell us that the french people gave the "wrong" answer, and we the dutch people should teach them a lesson by giving the "right" answer, then you are totally wrong, and you don't show much respect for either the french or the dutch democracy. We might vote the same as the french did, or we might vote differently. (not likely, but it still might happen) Either way, both answers will be the "right" answer.
I think you owe the french people and the french democracy an apology, for your pretending they gave the "wrong" answer.
If we want to take this Europe thing seriously (and I think we should) then we should also repsect the opinions of the people of other European countries. The french were asked for their opinion, and they gave it. Show them their respect.
See you later Jaypee.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-31 05:34 pm (UTC)So let me tell you something about us plebs. You apparently lost touch with us and have no idea what we think anyway, your politics show that clearly, so here it is. The average person doesn't like to be told what to do. And when you try to tell someone with more than half a brain to vote 'yes', without giving them coherent, objective information on the issue they're supposed to vote 'yes' on, that someone is going to revolt.
You know the really spooky thing? This could be written word for word by a French about the French context. I guess our political elites across our beautiful continent are all just the same.
In France we were told for example to vote yes for three global reasons - I'm caricaturing a bit, but honestly, this is the essence of the arguments :
-"It will reduce unemployment! We swear!": sadly, they had already used that argument with the Maastricht referendum, so people weren't going to fall for that one twice. Plus our unemployment problems are so deep I doubt 400 pages of paper will change much.
-"This Constitution is so cool bacause it garantees Human rights! Woohoo!": Riiight. Because France is the equivalent of Pinochet's Chile, and thank goodness Brussels is here to defend us.
-"If you vote no, the Nazis will arrive! OMGWTFBBQ!": this argument left me speechless. I knew our political elites despised us, but do they really think we're that stupid? Apparently so.
Why do you think the French said 'non'?
Well, actually, the French said 'non' because they didn't believe so much in Europe. French have always been a bit off to the side. As a big country, they would lose power in the European Union.
Here I beg to differ. The French believe very much in Europe, generally.
However, the French are very uncomfortable with the direction Europe is taking. French are conservatives, deep down in their froggy little hearts, and with the passage from 15 to 25 countries, and the talks about Turkey, and then the Constitution, a sort of "Whoa! Things are maybe going a bit too fast!" feeling sort of emerged.
I think the French people want a pause to rethink the whole thing, around some very basic questions: what is Europe? Where do its borders stop? What do we want it to be, socially? How much power are we ready to hand over to Brussels? Do we even trust Brussels?
Loved your letter, you should send it ;)
no subject
Date: 2005-06-01 04:12 am (UTC)Couldn't find anything about me in misscam's LJ, but maybe it was in some obscure comment thread ;-). In any case, thanks for replying. Hearing the French side of things certainly is an eye-opener.
My stepdad said today: "this 'constitution' is too complicated for a simple yes or no vote" and I think he's right. There's far too much in this treaty to just say yes or no, and most of it isn't even new...though we don't know about that.
I'm a pretty smart girl with a good education but I suck at politics (I tried to learn about them but failed miserably) and I have no idea what the EU and the EC can do. And I think I'm not the only one. So when our politicians ask us to say yes or no to something we don't understand, and then give us obscure info on it all, ofcourse we're going to vote no.
All in all, I'm all for Europe, but not like this. Let those who understand this just tell us exactly how this EU works (or if it doesn't tell us what is wrong and what you plan to do about it), and what bits we can change. And for those small bits, let us vote, bit by bit, to change them.
If this is a democracy, then why can't we directly vote for who is in the European Parliament (or can we but is this just my political naivité)? Send five elected politicians for each country who get to squabble over the bits and when they figure out what we want to change, let us say yes or no.
*sigh*
If I could vote a blank, I would, but I heard it's just yes or no.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-01 06:05 am (UTC)In any case, I left my own argument there and also put it in my lj. Hope you don't mind the linking part!!
(ps: Voting? well, how do I vote? I mean really...how? I don't know where to go for one and the polls close soon. Bleh. Ok, so they send me a letter complaining I didn't vote yes. well screw that, I didn't vote at all! :P)
~Mel~
no subject
Date: 2005-05-31 11:38 pm (UTC)Anyway, it's "back to the drawing board" in my opinion when some politicians say the constitution allows Europe to start war without the UN (like the USA) and some say it doesn't. What am I supposed to vote when apparently the ones who should know about it don't even know what it's all about?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-01 12:48 am (UTC)En voor muizenstaartje: Denk zelf eens na in plaats van zeuren dat het allemaal onbegrijpelijk is. Er zijn genoeg bronnen in de media die in begrijpelijke taal uitleggen waar de Europese Grondwet voor staat. (kijk bijvoorbeeld eens op www.europese-grondwet.nl)
no subject
Date: 2005-06-01 01:16 am (UTC)Aangezien je me niet kent, wist je dat ook niet.